Exploring significant issues the Church is facing today
In this thought-provoking video, Daron dives into the question: “What is God saying to the church today?”
Amidst a post-COVID world and a deeply divided culture, we explore the significant issues that the Church faces today and the urgent call to repentance. Discover God’s profound message for us in these challenging times and gain insight into what it truly means to repent.
Join us as we navigate the unique spiritual landscape of our times and seek God’s guidance for the path ahead.
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I think a lot of what God’s saying to us is, is repent. And that’s not a shameful thing, right? That’s a great invitation, right? To repent needs to change the way you think, to turn, to go the other direction. And I, I think 2020 was an opportunity for us to repent, and I think many of us missed it. And so I think my encouragement to you would be to get really compassionately curious and to ask the Lord God, what, what needs to change in my thinking about the mission, about the method, right? About the model of church that I’m a part of,
Tagline: Created on purpose and for purpose.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Daron Earlewine podcast. So glad to have you back with us here. And whether you’re listening audio only, or you’re watching on YouTube, we appreciate the downloads. Thank you for those that have been subscribing to the YouTube channel and to the also to the Apple Podcast channel. It’s been great to see new folks joining us each and every week. And if you didn’t know we had one or the other, maybe you’re just a YouTube person you didn’t know about Spotify or Apple Podcast, you can get the podcast in any way you get your podcast, whether it’s video or audio. And we thank you so much for being a part of the podcast community. And this summer, we’re taking time to answer some of the questions that you have all sent in things that you’re thinking about, things you’ve been praying about stuff you’d like some clarity on, or just maybe like my take on.
And we appreciate that. Thanks for the feedback. And if you have more questions as if these episodes are, are spurring and, and bringing up more curiosity and different questions, don’t hesitate to send those in. You can always email me, daron@blackbirdmission.com, dm me on any of the socials, or you can always just text me 317-550-5070. So here’s our third question in this series. It says this, after 2020 and the pandemic, we now have metaverse churches and online churches. Where do you think the church is going and what do you believe God is telling the church? Huge question, and I dig this one. I really do. You know what? I’ll have to be honest with you during the pandemic man, I, I had a little bit of a I don’t know what I wanna call like a confidence in the church breakdown for me.
And and this was kind of multifaceted and I, I think a part of it was watching everything was related to the pandemic that was quickly, completely saturated and overcome by political perspectives, which it seems like everything right now, any issue is completely saturated in political perspectives. Which that’s another podcast where I actually believe that the newest, the politics is becoming a religion in our time and day, which is, which is scary. If you remember back during 2020, during the Pandemic, then we had all the George Floyd protests and situations which brought to light some, some overdue and really needed conversations on racism in our culture. But I also think that became completely overcome by political discourse that distracted I think, from a lot of of what could have happened positively. But I would say from my perspective, and it may be different based on whatever the social media algorithms that, that are part of my life the information that it force feeds me, I walked through 2020 honestly really disappointed in the church in general.
And I remember praying a lot during that time in saying, God, like, what are you doing? And then at the end of that, right, we had the election, which I then I felt like there was such, like I said, in my algorithms from social media in the news is there was so much noise being made from, from my perspective would be a lot of, of maybe like kind of the white Christian nationalism, evangelical side of things that didn’t feel very Jesusy to me. And the difficult part was, there was even some voices that I, that I felt like I, I I trusted a little bit. Maybe not a lot bit, but a little bit. And going through it just being like, what, what is happening? And I think there’s a part of it where I think some things were being exposed, which is good.
I think there was a, a a, a sifting and a shaking that happened during 2020 to the church. I think there was an amazing opportunity provided by God for repentance to happen from the church. And I think that repentance was necessary at, at, at all levels. Four categories that maybe I would see is we use these four, you know, terms at, at Mercy Road the family of churches that I’m a part of here in Indianapolis. But the mission motto, model and method, I think there’s room for, and there was massive room for repentance for how we had gotten the mission wrong, how we gotten the motto wrong, how we gotten the model of church wrong. And a lot of our method. And I don’t know that we really did a great job repenting because I think we did a lot of defending, I think we did a lot of deflecting.
I think we did a lot of just scrounging around in a pretty not very creative way to do whatever we could to get back to the way things used to be. And you know, I think about the positive, I guess, of the pandemic, like the online churches, I think it was great that, that a a lot of churches, you know, really stepped up and figured out how do we how do we use online church to, to reach people and, and to connect with people. But the thing that was disheartening to me as it kind of went through that year and even past is I think for some churches, the, the, the wake up call was, okay, how can we use this technology and the inability to gather in mass groups? How can we now use this to disciple people daily?
And I saw churches do some really cool things to say, okay, we’re not gonna have a church service, so how can we use this median, right? How can we use this method of of online connection to help disciple and walk people towards Jesus? And there were some really cool things that happened, but then I feel like what I saw is pretty quickly the, the, the, the, the race became okay, how do we effectively just put what we do on a Sunday service online? And I think maybe what God was inviting us into is like, I think you guys have missed the mission and, and even the model that I’ve asked you to do, and you’re just figuring out as quickly as you can, how to just better broadcast the same stuff you were always doing. And this has been some stuff that, that God’s been challenging me on.
And I feel like, you know, maybe 15 years ago or so, God began to open my eyes to different ways to, to be the church, not just do church. And you know, when we started Blackbird Mission over a decade ago, you know, a lot of what I, I wanted to see us do was to create more of a discipleship making movement. And that time we were doing a lot more in the, in the bars and pubs around Indianapolis. And we wanted to use you know, some unique ways to, to disciple people that could make disciples. And man, it was really difficult and challenging because I’d grown up my whole life in the model of, you know, the churches. You go to a church on Sunday and you hear a guy talk. And, and I knew that that wasn’t what God asked us to do.
And I think if you come back to it, the, I mean back, I guess back to the question, I’m sorry if I’m kind of rambling right? Is, is, you know, where do I think the church is going or what do I believe God’s telling the church? I think it’s the same thing that Jesus has been telling us since he told us the first time when he was launching the church, right? Was make disciples like, go make disciples that make disciples, teach them what I’ve taught you, and I’m gonna be here with you to do that. And he gave us a lot of freedom in that. Like, he didn’t say, this is the way it’s supposed to be. Like, here’s the model you go and you do. But the, the, the struggle, I guess is when you look globally, like there’s a lot of great global movements of the kingdom that I don’t think were really impacted all that much through the pandemic.
In fact, they probably grew like wildfire because they weren’t dependent on coming together in one room, hearing one man or woman speak for 30 minutes and singing some songs together. And I think the church in America freaked out because it was like, oh my gosh, we can’t go to church. And if you’ve built most of your life of your identity, of being a follower of Jesus that you go to church, then that was a real issue. I guess for me, one of the things I’ve been trying to ask people for probably about 15 years now, I remember literally asking this often in church services is like, what would you do tomorrow if it was impossible to go to church? Like, would you have a vibrant, growing relationship with Jesus if you couldn’t attend a church service on Sunday? And if that freaks you out, like then you have a very Western American view of what it means to follow Jesus.
And the, the chances that you’re active in making disciples and living out the mission of Christ is probably not there. And so, you know, what do I think God’s saying? Like I think, you know, the part of it is the metaverse church is online church. I think there can be great things. We’re talking about method there, and I think creativity in the method is phenomenal. I think we should use every opportunity we can and new technologies and whatever we can to, to find new and innovative methods to make disciples who make disciples. That’s what Jesus is telling us to do. Cause that’s what he did. Cuz and then disciples actually do what God us called us to do. What, what, what Jesus did. If we’re just using, excuse me, new methods to just broadcast the same church services that we’ve always been doing, that statistically have proven, don’t necessarily make disciples.
Sometimes they make converts, which is great, but oftentimes they make they make students and attenders. And what we see in North America compared to what’s happening globally in the church and has historically happened, is that most faithful attenders and students aren’t necessarily very good missionaries or people that are actually making disciples. You know, I’ve told you guys a story before. I mean for me, you know, about 15 years ago I went to a conference down in, in in, in Lexington and Mike Breen and his team from three dm ministries stood up and, and had like these 200 pastors stand up. And I was in the room and they’re like, okay, pastors, let’s stand and let’s recite the great commission. Everybody, you know, it was all great, you know, everybody had the great commission memorized, you know, therefore go make disciple. We all say it all strong, loud, and proud.
And then he asked us, everybody sit down and he says, okay pastors, how many of you could raise your hand right now and you feel confident that your church has a, a process and a plan that’s working that makes disciples, that makes disciples. And like maybe half the room, let’s say 25% of the room raised their hand. And he was like, okay, great. Now if, if we were to go back to your church this weekend, how many of you’re confident that that we could find someone that, that you’re discipling, that they know you’re, you’re their, that they know they’re your disciple and you know that they’re your disciple. And like two guys in the front row raised their hands and the room got real quiet. And then Mike said again, okay, pastors once again, the what was the great commission.
And, and that hit me in like a ton of bricks. Cuz I realized at that point I’d been doing local church ministry for, I don’t know, like got 10 years at that point or something. And I don’t think I had ever been formally discipled on how to make a disciple. I mean, I met with people all the time. I helped people know how to follow Jesus. But if you gave me a brand new disciple and said, Hey I’m gonna come back and in six weeks, you know what I mean? I, I need to, I need to this person to know how to start making disciples. I have to be honest, I wouldn’t have known what to do. That’s a problem, right? I was a really good speaker still at that point I could do an amazing church service, right? If you’re looking for something to help plan put on the worship service creativity of stuff and ideas and songs and skits and videos, and I’m good at all that. And, and those are actually, those are really good methods. They can be used for good things, but are they the mission? Are they what God called us to do? No, they’re just me knowing how to do North American church pretty good.
So I guess what God was saying in 2020, and, and I feel like what God’s been trying to say to me for like 15 years is it’s, it’s time to repent of the ways that you’ve started doing what I didn’t ask you to do or making the method at which you do it somehow. The, the most important thing and and and forgetting the foundational things is learn how to make disciples that make and use whatever method you can do with that. Cuz that’s the mission. And and I don’t know, I, I’m pretty confident, I guess I could say the most of the church in America didn’t, didn’t get that we were really quick to get real defensive, to become very, you know, we’re being attacked, stand up for our rights. We don’t have to listen to the government tell us what to do. We’ll do.
And and I think in all that, I, I think we missed what God was saying, which I think God, God was saying was, stop focusing on your show. Stop focusing on your service and go back to making disciples. And I think we picked a lot of political and racial and social fights to defend ourselves and to protect ourselves, to get back to the, to get back to normal, which I think was missing the point in the first place. So what is God saying I think to the church? I think he’s saying the same thing he’s been saying for 2000 years. Make disciples that make disciples. And I think it’s time for a commercial break. We’ll be right back.
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I wanna hit you with a couple scriptures just to give us some perspective of, of what I think God wants from us. And and man, this is, this is something I’m really passionate about. And honestly, you know what when I was a full-time pastor, like I said, I I, I spent years talking a lot about this really passionately, and I’m just being vulnerable with you guys, you know? And back in 2012, I left full-time ministry in the local church and, and the, the, the desire was to, to go and, and kind of experiment with how do you make disciples that make disciples? And and we did it, I think in, in, in some cool and effective and innovative ways for about three years. And, you know, as I reflect on that, then I I, I think I really got tired of trying to swim upstream in a lot of ways.
And I think there’s a part of it, of getting to a place of realizing, man, I, I, I didn’t exactly know what I was doing or what we were doing, or we did, but we didn’t. And I’ll just be super vulnerable, I think I think it’s tough for me. Maybe it’s tough for us to get real comfortable with the small and Jesus wasn’t right. Like, he was like, yeah, I got these 12 dudes and one of them is actually gonna betray me. So I’ve got 11 that are really solid and I’m gonna trust the kingdom to these 11 and what they can do in, in reproducing disciples. And I’ve been trying to figure it out since then. A lot of what we do here on the podcast and through spiritual d n a and all different resources, you know, I I’m trying to do my best to awaken people to become who they were born to be.
So they can make disciples that make disciples. And we don’t talk on, on the podcast a lot about the church, but but God’s beginning to stir in me a desire to, to to reengage a little bit more and, and try to, to to innovate, to create to encourage whatever influence I have on the churches that I’m connected with. That are we really making disciples that make disciples and the church I’m a part of here in, in Indianapolis with Mercer Road, I love the way that, that they’re experimenting the way that they’re dedicated to it. It’s not perfect because human beings are doing it right? But but I love, I love the mission, I love the motto, I love the motto that that Mey wrote has, and, and I’m trying to do my best to help us get as close as we can to, to doing what Jesus told us to do, to make disciples.
And, you know, I think some of it, I mean, looking at through some of these scriptures, right, of, of, of what is God saying to the church right now? I think he’s saying to the church right now what he said in Micah six eight, he’s told you, oh man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you? But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God, to do justice, to love kindness. Some other passages, some other para translations say mercy, justice and mercy. I think that’s what God is saying to the church, and I don’t think we really know how to live that very often. I think it’s a tough thing to be somebody who fights for justice because you’re usually fighting against power. And we like to be in power. A lot of people who fight for justice and do justice end up marginalized, end up persecuted, end up dead actually.
And we don’t all often sign up for that that journey. And to love kindness, to love mercy. I don’t know that if I, if I, if I took a snapshot of most North American evangelical churches that I would say two words to describe that place is it’s, that’s a place of justice and mercy. And so I, I think that’s a problem. And I know the question that came through was more about, you know, online church and metaverse and stuff. And I don’t think the method matters. I think that the method, if you can find innovative ways, innovative ways to, to use new technology and stuff, that’s wonderful. I guess the question is is the purpose of what you’re doing is it doing justice? Is it loving mercy? And is it walking humbly with God? Think about James 1 27 where James says this pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, is this, to visit orphans and widows and their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
When was the last time we visited orphans and widows in their distress? Jesus had a lot to say about the least of these, about the marginalized, about the poor, about those in prison, about orphans, about widows. And my experience in my 45 years in, in most North American local churches is we we spend more time reaching upper-middle-class people in suburbs that can give enough to pay for us to put on a good show on Sundays. And the tough part is that’s not what the Bible said, right? Pure and undefiled religion isn’t putting on the best worship service and then recording it and broadcasting it so other people can watch it from their home. So that’s a tough one. And then last thing is you look through what the, the early church looked like, right? And acts to, they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and the fellowship, the breaking of bread into prayer.
You say, well, Daron, that’s what people do. They do those, that’s, he’s saying they went to church, right? Right. So they, that’s not what it’s saying. This is things they did. And sometimes those can happen as you go to church. I’m not saying, I’m not saying that, that those are mutually exclusive somehow, right? But everyone was filled with all at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles, and all the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. And every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts praising God and enjoying the favor of all people. And the Lord added to their number daily those that were being saved. And then again, in Acts chapter four, we get a little peek into the early church.
And in verse 32, all the believers were one in heart and mind. It’d be great to experience that in the church in America, wouldn’t it? To be one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had with great power. The apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all. I work in them all, that there were no needy persons among them. That’s interesting to me, right? Like the, the, the evidence that, that it’s giving us that God’s grace was so powerfully at work in the mall is that there were no needy persons among them. And I’ll be honest, that’s not where my brain goes first of like, man, if God’s power is really at work to me, I’m going to be being extremely generous in making sure that everyone has their needs met around me. You kind of go back to the first episode in this series where we talked about wealth and money is, I think too often our, our prayers and maybe my prayers are like, I’ll know that God’s really powerfully at work in my life and blessing me when, when I have all I need and more , then I know that God’s at work in my life. Not that everyone in the community has their needs back.
Cuz from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put them at the apostle’s feet and it was distributed to anyone who had need. So yeah, there’s a long take on on the question. I think a lot of what God’s saying to us is, is repent. And that’s not a shameful thing, right? That’s a great invitation, right? To repent means to change the way you think, to turn, to go the other direction. And I, I think 2020 was an opportunity for us to repent and I think many of us missed it. And so I think my encouragement to you would be to get really compassionately curious and to ask the Lord God, what, what needs to change in my thinking about the mission, about the method, right? About the model of church that I’m a part of.
If I’m a part of a church that just basically attracts people to a great show to hear a, a good speaker and and then leaves 60 minutes later, and that seems to be that the pretty much the top goal of it then it’s probably time to repent, to change your mind about what the church is about, what the mission is. If you’re listening to this episode and you go during it, I’ll be honest, I, I don’t have any idea to make a disciple who makes disciples. And if I’m really honest, Darren, I don’t know that I really want to, right? I don’t know. I really want to actually have to have that kind of connection with another person that, that that’s a problem, okay? Be cuz that’s the mission. Like the mission is that, that you’re so loved by God and that you’re love him so much that it’s something that, that, that pours out of you to you realize that I I want someone else to know what I know and to learn to live what I’ve learned to live.
That doesn’t mean you’re perfect, that doesn’t mean, well Daron, you don’t know. I’m not per, I’m not saying you’re per I’m not perfect, right? But that was, that was the, the offer, that’s the commission. And so if you’re not at a church that’s open to that conversation, if you’re not a place to where you’re living that out it’s time to change your thinking and change your methods and, and, and ask God to begin to teach you, to begin disciple you to know how to do that. And here’s the cool thing is he’ll actually do that. Like I think a lot of the ways what he was trying to do in 2020 was to get us to start praying like that. So here’s my take on that question. Thanks for asking it. And if you have follow up questions, you can always send him to me, text me, reach out to me. I’d love to continue this dialogue with you. So thanks for download this episode. I appreciate it. Until we talk again, remember these three things, God’s for Night Against You. He’s near you, not far away, and he has created you on purpose and for purpose. And that purpose is to make disciples that make disciples talk to guests next time on the Daron Earlewine podcast.